Letters to AWIZARD List

Moogy's Letters to the AWIZARD List

08/24/01
A few quick thoughts on some things written recently - The first Utopia band was TR and the Sales Brothers and Dave Mason (from Florida not England) who's only claim to fame is that he co-wrote the Utopia theme with TR. Probably M. Frog was in that band too. Were they called Utopia? I'm not sure about that. Probably. The only hold-over to the next Utopia was Frog. A poor choice in my opinion, as he didn't play anything or sing at all. He just twiddled knobs and got real drunk a lot. It was more a question of friendship and hanging out with TR, in my opinion. Frog was WILD and TR liked wild.
On Derringer And TR as buds - They met when Rick was doing sessions on my first album and Todd was producing. Rick and I had been friends for a few years at that point, having met at Steve Paul's the scene - a club in midtown. I was friends with all of the McCoys and they were a pretty wild bunch themselves. Bebe became close with Rick's wife, Liz Derringer and they did a lot of double dating and hanging out at Max's Kansas City. But, in the early years of TR in NYC, I'd say it Paul Fishkin that was very close with TR. They shared an apartment together on east 13th st for at
least a year or two. But this was before BeBe, when TR was going out the the GTO's girl and Patti Smith. I don't think I ever met Randy Reed. BeBe was pretty, but only around 16 or so when she started going out with TR, and she was a spoiled child. Always making scenes and acting like a
brat. She came on some tours with us and it was hell having to put up with her tantrums and such...... She's got a pretty daughter though. I haven't read the book, but I'm going to check it out. I read an article BeBe wrote for some magazine about her affairs. What surprised me most was that she was living with TR during many of them (according to her article). Who knew?

Moogy

01/27/99 Todd was always hinting at bands to come in songs and album titles. Remember "Wait another year and Utopia is here!" on the song, "International Feel" from "A Wizard, A True Star"? Hence in his early, insecure days after the Nazz, Todd was hinting at a band with his first solo album "Runt". Which way to go, group or solo? The "Runt" album and "Runt/The Ballad of Todd Rundgren" was one way to keep people guessing. Would a band "Runt" emerge to tour, or was it going to be Todd, the solo artist? Not even he knew, at the time. As I was his occasional piano player and friend during that period I would sometimes be hired by him to play on some of the first sessions he ever produced! I played on tracks by Ian and Sylvia, James Cotten and Libby Titus (all only singles) which were Todd's first production assignments for Albert Grossman, his manager and manager of these acts. Everyone was pleasantly surprised at the Grossman office (they managed me too, at that time) by Todd's single "We got to get you a woman" making it to #20 on the billboard charts. That's when Todd told me we were going to be getting his band "Runt" together. This was the winter of '70 going into '71 and "Runt" the first TR post Nazz band was being formed. I was the keyboard player and Todd had Tony and Hunt Sales flown into NYC from California that winter or spring. Hunt was only 14 years old at the time! We got very little financial or moral support from Albert Grossman and his company. Even though Todd was on his label and had hit single (#20). We rehearsed in a loft on Houston Street, and Todd was always hyping us about how big "Runt" was going to be. He had grandiose ideas for a stage act even then. We painted our amps into weird colors and designs and he had my Hammond organ painted over as the Holy Bible! Go figure. He did all the painting himself with us helping him. Like Todd, Hunt and Tony dressed like British fops. Only I dressed like a Greenwich Village beatnik, which is what I was at the time. Todd bought me an appropriate outfit for live gigs. I think we got paid $50 a week while we waited for Grossman or someone to book us. Todd had never sung lead live before, or fronted a band and he was pretty nervous at rehearsals. I'd look at him singing in his British Mod clothes and wonder if he could cut it live. Tony and Hunt were very excitable and played at MAX volume which Todd on his guitar, also did. I could never hear myself at rehearsal. We could never hear the singing. The loft was big, echoey and empty and it was one big mush of noise. No one could really hear anything. No sound people or roadies. Just Todd, me, Tony and his extremely excited 14 year old brother Hunt. I thought the band kinda sucked. I think they thought so, too, but Todd pushed us forward on promises of big promos and gigs. "Get you a Woman" was top 20. Grossman and his associates managed Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, The Band, and Gorden Lightfoot, among others. They didn't see how Todd fit in with these roots groups, classic blues, folk, rockabilly... Todd at that time was kind of an embarrassment to them as an artist. They did nothing for Todd and nothing to encourage the act. They did not book us anywhere. They hemmed and hawed and Todd waited. RUNT PLAYS A GIG!!!!!! ***** It's first and last stand. ***** Sometime in the spring of '71, Todd wangled us a gig at The Village Gate in Greenwich Village. It was a famous room and a big room. Mostly downtown hype types played the room. Lenny Bruce, Woody Allen, what followed us was the National Lampoon Show, which ran for about a year with John Belushi and Chevy Chase. A pseudo - British rocker with a slight teenybopper hit was the wrong act for the large room. But someone booked us there. I don't think they wanted Todd to gig at all. We headlined. But no support. No ads. No publicity. I think we played for a few nites, two nites, maybe three. We played to an empty house. No one came to see us. Except some discouraging manager types from Grossmans' office. We played loud. You couldn't hear the vocals. It was all thrash rock, no ballads. The room was big and empty. Just like the loft. Sound bouncing off the walls forcing the few people who came to see us out. The manager types told Todd the band sucked and promptly cut off all funds. So ended "Runt". His managers and label squandered his hit single and he didn't gig, I believe 'till The Ballad of TR came out. I think they wanted to keep him producing but not becoming a star himself. The really sad thing about the whole depressing RUNT band experience was that none of us could tell that Todd was any good as a performer at that time. Maybe at the time, he wasn't. Only gradually, as I played with him thru various incarnations of groups until things melded with "Utopia", did it dawn on me or the managers or the other band members, that this guy was going to become one of the great rock concert performers and singers of all time!! By the time Utopia was touring he was one of the truly great front men in rock. We were all proud of him. I read where he said "Runt" was his nickname from school. But he was so tall at 19, that I couldn't imagine it. Maybe he's blocked out the whole Runt band experience. I know that I had, until reading your emails on the Wizard list. Moogy

2/1/99 Well they may have called him "runt" in High School, but when I met him in 69, he was already 6 ft. tall, maybe he shot up in H.S. all in one year or something. But he told me he was pretty much a solitary figure in HS, spending most of his time in his room gaining his pop music skills. No, I think what they probably called him in HS was probably, (forgive me for this)...nerd. Moogy

2/1/99 The band runt in '70/'71 was Todd's baby. He knew Tony and Hunt and flew them in from the coast. The next band-- the one that did the WMMR radio broadcast was made up of N D Smart, a friend of Todd's from the Hello People and Ian and Sylvia on drums. Also in the band, at that time, I brought in two friends of mine that I had played with in two bands, Stu Woods and Tommy Cosgrove. I had played with them in the Vagrants, a legendary Long Island band that also featured Lesley West, and their group, Brethren, which recorded two albums for some obscure label. Both albums featured my songs. All four of us were flown out to LA ('71/'72?) (when the ballad of Todd Rundgren came out). I was flown out first and stayed at Todd's house. For a while we all stayed at a hotel on sunset strip called "the sunset marquee". I remember we weren't called Runt. It believe the band was called Todd Rundgren, but maybe he also featured ours names. Like Rundgren, Klingman, Cosgrove, Smart etc...I can't clearly recall. I'll try to search my memory on this short-lived congregation. But I believe it was like the first short-lived band. The management/label did not live up to their end of the bargain and refused to financially support or gig- support the band, which was supposed to promote "The Ballad of TR". Our biggest accomplishment was the WMMR broadcast, which also featured all of us singing our own songs. As well as Todd doing his thing. Like Utopia, which was to come next, Todd was already experimenting with the idea of a group where everyone contributed musically. The music of this group was diametrically opposed to the first band "RUNT". These guys (Smart, Cosgrove, and Woods) were all real musicians with years playing blues, rock, country and jazz. These guys were also studio musicians. Hunt (14 at the time) and Tony Sales were kids who liked to bash their instruments. Todd would show them note for note what to play. They had no professional experience at all before Todd. To me, the only advantage of Hunt and Tony's being in the band, was the fact the Tony's girlfriend at the time always hung out with us. I had a bit of a crush on her as she had been a student with me at one of my High Schools (Quintano's school for young professionals). Steve Tyler was also there with us. Her name was Nancy Allen. She later married Brian DePalma and the rest is Robocop history. Some even call what she does in movies "acting". Todd was slightly intimidated by the heavy credentials of the new band members. But, in the end, they were by far, much more sensitive to the music and would play it at levels where everything could be heard. They just couldn't wear the funny British mod clothes that Todd so loved which Hunt and Tony wore, without even being asked! But the sad fact is that it ended like "RUNT", all unfulfilled promises and no gigs, and rehearsing and sitting around for months before being disbanded. Things were to change rather dramatically when Todd asked to use my band, "Moogy and the Rhythm Kings" to become the original Utopia. Everything that had been wrong before was now right times 100! It helped that he had the #1 single in the country at the time, "Hello, it's Me!". Moogy

2/17/99 (You Gotta Have) "Friends" is a song that I wrote with Buzzy Linhart in the early 70's. It quickly became Bette Midler's theme song from her earliest gigs. She has since recorded it no less than 5 times on three of her albums!... Others have recorded it (Barry Manilow etc.) and sung it in films... Diane Keaton in "Lemon Sisters" and most recently, Meryl Steep and family sing it in "One True Thing". Todd Rundgren built Secret Sound in my loft apartment, at 147 w 24th St. in Manhattan in about 1972 or 3. All his and my albums were recorded there for several years. Till about 76 or 77 when Todd moved all his recording facilities up to Woodstock. [Why wasn't the album released until 1978?] It's just one of those things, Utopia was big, and I was more into being a band member than a solo artist, and I was busy working on Bette Midler's album, producing it for over a year. That's when I got back to my thing even if only in small doses. Moogy 2 only came out in Europe, Holland to be exact. I toured for a few gigs and did a lot of press at the time over there. Nothing much came of it. I did a series of interviews with Todd for my cable TV show of the early 80's. It was called "Manhattan Alley", about 1980 or 1981. But that was it. Haven't seen him in quite some time. I'm still in the biz, I have a recording studio where I work with various artists and getting ready to press some CD's of my music...I don't talk to any former band members, though I did bump into Kasim at some jams over the last few years. Saw him last about 6 months ago. Moogy

2/17/99 The funniest thing about "Friends" was that Sam Gorden (My publisher and Todd's as well) wanted Tiny Tim to record it as a follow-up to his novelty hit, "Tip Toe thru the Tulips". Once that idea failed, the tune sat 'til Buzzy Linhart sang it, when he would open for Bette Midler at the Continental Baths. She heard him do it and adapted it as her theme song. Back then... maybe 1971. Sam Gorden was Albert Grossman's publishing head. He handled all Bob Dylan and the Band songs. I just thought it was funny that he would think of Tiny Tim as the only artist who could cover, "You gotta have Friends"!! Better Midler is a whole other story!! But the biggest thrill of producing her album was setting up and recording the Bob Dylan duet on that record. I bumped into Dylan at a bar.... and talked him into it. Now that's a long story!!!!! That' s also the one time, I ever saw Todd blow his well-known cool. I was still in Utopia at the time, and he was extremely impressed that I had produced Dylan. It's the only time in my life that he ever asked me about anyone, "What's Bob Dylan really like?". He wanted to know. It totally stunned me. I had scored big points with TR. Though him and Dylan were managed by the same man, Todd (by 1975) had only met Dylan once and briefly, at that. Moogy

2/17/99 Yes, you did see me on the Andy Kaufman Story, It's a 2-hour special on his life on the E channel. They've been repeating it a lot. I grew up with Andy in Great Neck, -- we were best friends in H.S. for about a year. Andy was in my jug band at a big concert at the school. He pretended to be a blind Cuban conga player. We led him on and off stage. (That story is in the TV special) While I was in Utopia and we were doing a summer concert in Central Park (probably 74 or 75), I passed out flyers to come to Max's Kansas City, where I did a week with my band. I called it "The Moogy Klingman Review". I had Andy do his comic bits between songs and then play conga with the band. I was trying to develop a Martin and Lewis rapport with Andy, as I wanted to try a Klingman and Kaufman team. I'd play and sing songs and be straight man and he would be crazy Andy. One nite, Todd Rundgren came down and did several songs with us including "Freak Parade" (Siegler and Schuckett and Ellman were in the band already). So Todd was onstage when Andy would do his bits and play conga with the band and Todd even played flashy guitar solos while Andy did his "Elvis". One nite only! Andy never wanted to team up again, so my Martin and Lewis dream when out the window, but he went on to be quite a show biz legend. Coincidentally, my sister Lynnzee Klingman is the film editor on "Man in the Moon", the Andy Kaufman story starring Jim Carey, out next fall. Moogly 2/17/99 I have often thought about doing a book looking back over my years in show business and maybe one day I will. I haven't talked to John Seigler in years. The last I heard is that he is a jingles producer and writer in NYC somewhere. In 1985 we did a Moogy album together, He co-wrote and co-produced many of the songs. It's called "the Boy with the Beat Box" and has an early hip-hop influence. I hope to put it out on CD soon. If I do, I'll be getting back in touch with him. Moogy

2/17/99 [On 5/73 at C.W.Post Univ., NY and 1974 NY Central Park, did you primarily handle piano or did you help also with the organs and synthesizers?] The new Japanese release is basically Todd with piano trio at the Bottom line, 1978. I'm playing all the keys on that album. It's all just grand piano. Just heard the album today. In Utopia, Ralph and I, and later a third keyboardist, Roger Powell, all played different keyboards in our setup. We all had our piano sounds and our synth sounds and organ sounds. So anyone might be playing any keyboard at any given moment. [How did Schuckett get invited into the band?] He was in my band Moogy and the Rhythm Kings and came along at my and Todd's invitation. [ Were you on the 5/73 tour with Todd, Sales, Sales, M. Frog, & Mason.?] I wasn't on that tour. It was after that tour that Todd decided to ask Moogy and the Rhythm Kings to join Utopia. Only M. Frog was held over, and he didn't play anything at all. Moogy

2/17/99 Todd played piano on "Sometimes I don't know....." I played organ and Ralph Schuckett played RMI electric keyboard. All live, and all at the same time. Moogy

2/18/99 << Re: Mr. Triscuits The original name of that song, as evidenced by Todd's dialogue introducing it on Nimbus Thitherward is The Emerald Tabla of Hermes Tirstmagistese (sp?) Todd says something to the effect of "The original name of this song was The Emerald Tabla of Hermes Tristimagistese " WiB>> I definitely remember at some TR and Utopia rehearsal, (or OK, it coulda been a Moogy & the rhythm Kings rehearsal), a box of Triscuits occasionally popping up!! Hence, if the complicated and long name was the problem in choosing the song title, the triscuits cracker box may have lead to the solution. Moogy

2/18/99 This was the first or 2nd issue, when it was published from the guy's apartment. He personally stapled the thing together and distribution was totally homegrown. I don't know if the later, slick Trouser Press would even count these early issues. I was on the cover of # 1 or #2. That's a fact. I believe I even have a copy somewhere in my archives. Yes- this was the only time I was ever to make it to a magazine cover, no matter how homegrown it may have been at the time. Moogy

2/18/99 I played all the gigs for that little tour to make "Back to the Bars". I don't remember the dates, though. I did want to say some things about the newly released "Todd - live in NYC - 1978". I just heard the album yesterday. And was really pleased. It was really a piano trio backing up Todd. Occasionally, him on guitar and Larry from the Hello People on organ sounding keyboard. But mostly it was piano trio behind Todd! A unique concept, thought of by him. I'd been out of the band (Utopia) a few years, but he invited me back to make this record. First thing is you can hear me on every song from beginning to end. That's a first for me on a TR record. And a lot of stuff sounded good. My jazz piano solo on "the verb to love"...... in the style of McCoy Tyner and Keith Jarrett (whom I'd studied with). Todd's music is extremely hard to play on the keyboards. His are not songs with chords that go one chord to a bar. His piano parts are like small classical pieces. Every single note and chord must be played exactly as written. Every melody note in a song may have a piano chord voiced in an exact way. Much more fun is playing with Chuck Berry or James Cotten, where one can rock the blues. Playing behind Todd was more like classical music with a beat. It was great to cut loose on Love in Action. I got my chuck berry licks out there. "Never Never land" sounded at times like Todd was following me and then me following him. It was sort of comic in that one didn't seem to know who was supposed to follow who. The soul medley was also nice, cause I got a chance to loosen up and get soulful. I really like listening to theTR in NYC '78 CD. The only really sad thing is that Todd once again chose to leave "Lady Face" off the CD. This was a jazzy bossa nova song that I wrote. He sang it beautifully and we played it great. It should have been on the album. Anybody got a copy of that song to send me? I'd had it on a boot, but lost my copy. Moogy

2/18/99 <> Yes, the keyboards and vocals were done separately. If you listen to the recording, Todd had me overdub several keyboards to thicken the sound and cover the occasional keyboard flub. (Yes, he's not the only one ever to hit a piano clunker) So, it sounds a little bit orchestral, and not like a solo piano at all. Unfortunately, I had to perform the song with Todd live occasionally, with mixed results, as I am not a classical player in any sense of the word. << and 2) did you give the piece your own arrangement>> No, I played the exact part that is written, as scored by the musical half of G & S. Since the score is about 20 pages long, it was hell to get the pages turned both when recording it, and especially when playing it live!!!!

2/22/99 Todd did the album (AWATS) in my house (secret sound) and I played on much of it. He never told me it was supposed to be a double CD and I don't know of any songs that` were left off it. If he had, they probably would have turned up on "Somewhere, Anywhere" where he says in the liner notes, he never had extra tunes on any album that didn't make the cut. He always put everything he had recorded on the album. The only album I know about where he fought with the label about putting out a double CD, was "Todd" I remember that it was a long and bitter feud. The ultimate solution, as you know, was to put out two plastic waffles into a single album sleeve. In my opinion, the label copped out by not giving him a double album sleeve. Moogy

2/23/99 As producer, main arranger, and main keyboardist of this album and songwriter (2 songs), of Bette Midler's "Songs for the Depression" I can express a little bit of discomfort with the fact that you left me off the list of Utopians that had something to do with this record. In fact, Roger Powell is not to be heard anywhere on this album. Willie Wilcox and Fellow Utopians John Siegler and Ralph Schuckett played on many cuts. Todd was featured on only the closing cut. He sang all the backgrounds on "Let Me Just Follow Behind", a song I wrote. And he sang beautifully. He also engineered his background vocals. This is probably the only time TR appeared on an album with not only Bette Midler, but also with Bob Dylan. Moogy

2/24/99 << Utopia Did you have a favorite song to play in concert or one that wasn't? > The song that I most liked to play live at the time of the 1st Utopia album was "Freak Parade" I co-wrote that song with Seigler and TR. when writing "freak parade" I tried to follow the form of Rhapsody in Blue by Gershwin. If you listen to the two back to back you might notice how closely aligned they are in form. I got to be George Gershwin by playing the piano parts. (especially the slow blues section where Todd comes in on slide guitar). But the most fun about playing the "Freak Parade" was the fight section where Todd and I had an actual musical fight on stage. Playing totally avante' guard dissonance, I banged on my keyboard and TR on his guitar. We moved around at our instruments and pretended to have a fistfight, playing out the story line of the little freak trying to get respect from the other freaks. The audience loved it and so did Todd and I. Anyone have a video of it?? Moogy \\
3/24/99 The James Cotten album, "Taking Care of Business", was actually a co-production, Produced by TR and Mark Moogy Klingman. The original album had full credits for all the players and me as co-producer. The CD re-release last year (on Capitol, as part of a 2 CD blues set) had no credits and listed TR as sole producer. A very big glitch, in my opinion. They did list songwriting credits properly and I had two songs on that album (One co-written with TR). I was the pianist and arranger for most of the album. And the players deserved credit too. Mike Bloomfield, Johnny Winter, Matt Murphy (Blues bros), Ritchie Heywood from little feat... a long list. Moogy

3/24/99<< War Babies by Hall And Oates. IMO, it's one of Todd's most adventurous productions>>Especially how much Daryl Hall (whom I had never heard of, at that time), sang like TR himself! Two Philly boys with the Philly sound imbedded in their brains! And besides, the whole thing was recorded in my house! (Secret Sound) And we stole Hall and Oates' drummer right after that record. (Willie Wilcox). Good choice, L Sprague! Moogy

4/1/99 The Great Speckled Bird was Ian and Sylvia's band on Bearsville with N.D. smart. on drums and Amos Garrett on guitar. Todd produced their album on Bearsville. I played piano on some of their demos with Todd producing. Those were my first sessions for Todd. 1969? 1970? Moogy

4/3/99 Hey Wizard List, In the 70's, movie director and script writer Cameron Crowe came on tour with TR and Utopia for a week or two or even more. Then he wrote an article for Rolling Stone about us (mostly TR). He was a huge TR fan and toured with us at the height of TR-mania. I bonded with Cameron on that tour, though I haven't seen him for quite a while. Now that he's doing a movie about his experiences from those days. Let's wait and see if TR and utopia are in that movie somewhere, (under other names of course) Moogy

4/10/99 On tours, with the original members minus M. Frog, we broke into a Bebop version of Dizzy Gillespie's "A nite in Tunisia". Ellman, Siegler, Schuckett and myself all had experience playing swingtime jazz. TR did not. So, he grabbed a mike and started singing these words to the tune of "Night in Tunisia". "Baby, you gotta S*** my D***". Those are the only words he came up with. Everyone grabbed mikes and started to sing along. Todd was so inspired that he turned on a two track machine in the control room (rehearsals were at secret sound, which was my loft). And in a half-hour "You Really Got to S*** My D***", was recorded. The whole band singing the refrain together while playing live. Always unreleased, we would play the cassette in our hotel rooms on tour, for laffs. I recently found a cassette of this classic porno song. Has anyone ever heard about this song? Does anyone have a copy? As far as I know this is TR's only porno recording, till the classic Allen Ginsberg CD of a few years ago, where TR accompanies Ginsberg on the raunchiest X-rated song on the CD. (And considering that it's Allen Ginsberg, you know it's got to be raunchy!!!) Moogy

4/26/99 << Why did Utopia's personal line up change? " Creative differences ", money etc... Did all of you (Moogy, M Frog, Ralph) leave at the same time? >> I've tried to keep my comments to the list on a positive note. Do you really want the answers to these questions? If I were to describe TR in anything less than positive terms, would I be immediately put on the s*** list? What would Christmas be like if kids thought that Santa wasn't all one would like to think he is? I will give you one hint. The Andy Partridge interview that you excerpted on the list last month sounded remarkably true to what many of the original Utopians experienced with TR. careful what you wish for, Moogy

4/27/99 "Lady Face" is a song I wrote for an off-Broadway musical called "A Nite in New Orleans", and Todd had heard the song. In fact, Utopia performed an abbreviated version of the musical for a few performances.... We performed it at radio city music hall. It was a good nite for me. Bette Midler was there and decided to have me produce her album then, and a guy named Will Holt was there. Will Holt was a big name in Broadway musicals at the time and he was so excited about "Nite in New Orleans" that he helped me expand it into a full musical and get it performed off-Broadway. Unfortunately, Todd was less excited about "Nite". He dropped the mini-musical from the set list after only a few performances. Luckily Frank Bubkis has Utopia performing it live on CD! I'm going to get it. Todd heard "Lady Face" which was written for the off Broadway production after Utopia dropped "Nite in New Orleans" from the set list. He liked it so much, that he added it to his set, (at his suggestion and my total surprise) at the Bottom Line for the "Back to the Bars" album. But once again, he never put it on any album. Moogy

4/27/99 Success imploded! Every original member quitting. Unbelievably sad. Gruesome, almost. The details are quite gory. And painful. So, I will not take them to a public forum at this time. I will instead start writing "The Moogy Chronicles". It will be a detailed look at that period of my life... My early years in the music biz. Much will revolve around TR. I'll go thru how we met and the creative process and our early- amazingly prodigious years together. For the time being, I'd much rather look at the positive aspects of our creative relationship, then the negative aspects. I'll try to send in a few pages every month dealing chronologically with the period. When we get to the break-up of the original utopia, I'll try to fill in some details. But please try to remember, my intro to the rock and roll life started not with TR, but when I had my high school jug band with Andy Kaufman (see the details in the Andy Kaufman E channel two hour special- they replay it often!) and a brief stint with the Jimi Hendrix band, when I was just a lad. (at that time called Jimi James and the Blue Flames). Moogy

4/30/99 - Moogy Klingman was recently seen on the outskirts of Utopia, entering the Ikon. It is rumored that he was seeking redemption for having impure thoughts about old band mate, TR-i. The High Priestess of the Ikon would only acknowledge that Moogy said 10 Hail Patti Smiths and was forgiven. When asked if Moogy's sin was that bad, the High Priestess said, 'It's no worse than masturbation, to which, it is remarkably similar." Just how High was the Priestess....? "Only some pot and a little acid. No hard stuff", she answered.

5/16/99 Johny Winter is great and a nice fella, too. I played on two Johny Winter albums. The first was "Johny Winter And" featuring Rick Derringer, and his brother on drums and Randy Hobbs on bass (who died a few years back). These guys were the McCoys and had just become Johny's band. I played on two cuts (uncredited). one was called "Kindness" and I was credited at least for writing that one. Johny did a great job singing and playing it. The other was a ballad I played organ on. "Johny Winter and " has recently been re-released on CD. Good record. The Silver Train session for "Still Alive and Well", where I played piano was fun. Mick Jagger and Keith Richard had given the song to Johny and Derringer, once again produced it. On this album I, at least, got credit for playing on it, even though my piano was mixed very low. Rick Derringer and the McCoys were very close friends during my early years in the business and I was the guy that introduced Rick to Todd, and got him on various TR sessions. Rick also helped me become an original member of Edgar Winter's white trash, and for a while I lived upstate on Edgar's Estate and rehearsed with the band, but missing NYC and finally getting my record deal with Capital, I bolted back to the city, before White Trash had done any gigs. Last big session with Edgar's group was when I was producing Bette Midler. I brought Bette to Edgar Winter's Long Island Estate. At this time Edgar had a 4 piece group with Derringer, Dan Hartman, and a drummer (don't remember the name). They had a few #1 records....... Free Ride and Frankenstein and were very big when we recorded a Midler record at their estate. The song, written by Bob Crewe, was called Volcano, and they did an amazing job of playing and singing it. Dan Hartman was all over Bette, wanting to go out with her (this is before he came out), but they became just friends. It's sad that Dan died of Aids a few years back. And sadder still? That Bette chose not to put "Volcano" on the record (Songs for the New Depression). Bad decision, Bette!! Moogy

5/16/99 Todd's attitude toward musical instruments and acquiring skills on them, had more to do with getting whatever he needed out of the instrument as opposed to becoming a virtuoso on any axe. On the very first day I met him, though, Todd was waiting outside the Cafe a Go Go in NYC in 69?) for Elvin Bishop, 2nd guitarist for the Paul Butterfield Blues Band, to arrange guitar lessons with Bishop for himself, - I was there to hang out with Elvin Bishop (a constant jam partner) and get my name on the guest list for the gig that nite. Yes, Todd seeking to get a guitar lesson was the way I met him. But, after that I never knew him to take lessons on any instrument or practice outside of band rehearsals (where we could "practice" up to ten hours a day). He always made it clear that he was not going to join the Clapton/Hendrix competition for best guitarist, and even didn't enjoy jamming the blues the way these other legends did. Back in 69 I would jam with Hendrix often and Clapton occasionally. It was in clubs like the "Scene", and the Cafe a Go Go, and lofts like Serge Katzens' where jams happened. Though Todd had the potential to be a great guitarist virtuoso, he had other things on his mind. Those things culminated in "Something/Anything". As Moogy and the Rhythm Kings became Utopia, we were all more or less, virtuoso type musicians studying jazz and classical music and practicing endlessly. It was in this atmosphere that TR, at that time, being under the influence of bands like Yes, Mahavishnu Orchestra and Chick Corea's electric Band, that the first Utopia album came to be. Todd took all these influences and musicians and came up with a concept where his guitar could be featured in more of a virtuoso type setting. We all practiced hard to make those tunes work and TR's guitar screamed fast lines as good as anybody. But soon he changed directions again with the more vocal harmony type Utopia and diverse solo albums. Once he conquered the guitar virtuoso trip by doing it, he moved on. Moogy

5/17/99 >>From: Steve Girdler<VAULT-KEEPER@WEBTV.NET 'good ole daze'. However, I don't appreciate being called a lair.<< >>My source for the "Something/Anything" drug references was Rick Derringer. Maybe the fact that Quaaludes were being done in the bathroom was to hide it from others---- like you, for instance. Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen<< Hey Steve, You still got it wrong. Rick was mistaken, if he told you that TR popped Quaaludes during the "Hello, It's me" session (Rick's only S/A session). It's an impossibility. Whatever Rick Derringer may have told you, he did it in confidence, as a secret. So, now that you have violated his trust, you've done a double whammy -- betrayed one of the legends of Rock and Roll, and at the same time spread a story that is totally untrue about another legend of R &R!!!! Steve, baby, you ain't getting into Rock and Roll Heaven!! <<ANYWAY, lying. not I'm prove & face, save to just confidence a betray had have I now because worms, of cans this opened never should guess Rick. by originated was it statements, my any in falsehood is there If it. none about lied use. me asked he which remarks, drug the including tape, on interview entire recorded> Rick has been one of my closest friends since years before he met Todd (who I introduced him too). Rick also loves to tell storie. He could spend the nite til dawn filling your head with Rock and roll trivia. During these story telling sessions, he could sometimes be mistaken in his facts. If, in fact, he told you that TR went to the bathroom to take downers during one of the live recording sessions for S/A, he slipped up. He was wrong. He asked you not to repeat this bull****, so why did you? Rick would never want his name used to smear Todd or any fellow musician with "drug" charges. That's a fact. It's also a fact I love Rick like a brother, so, don't besmirch this man in your McCarthy style finger pointing campaign. Todd called me late on a Friday nite to set up and book a whole band with horns and background singers for the Sunday all day recording session. I had about 24 hours to get people to the session. Rick was one of the people I called but he had a scheduling conflict and could only stay for the first song. He only played on that one song on S/A, On that Sunday, we recorded three songs live to tape, without overdubs, for S/A. The first one was "Dust in the Wind". Rick played guitar on that one and then had to leave. If Rick saw TR taking Quaaludes, it would have to have been then. That's means that TR would have been stoned on Quaaludes for the next 8 hours, recording his hit "Hello, It's Me", in a stupor. Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury ------- does that song sound like a guy stoned on Quaaludes?? Todd also sang, engineered, arranged (with my help) and played piano on "Hello" and "You really left me sore", that day. It was a fruitful 12 hours. So desperate was I for a guitarist, after Rick left, that I brought in my childhood friend, Robby Kolgale to play on the next two songs, including "Hello, It's Quaaludes".... I mean, "Hello, It's Me"! See!! You got me doing it!! Anyway, Robbie never did another recording session after that, in his life, but he was always proud that his only studio session had gotten into the top five. Now, stop the madness. Moogy

5/18/99 "Freak Parade" wasn't based on Varese or Grieg, but on Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue". The way the slow, blues section comes back at the end as a big orchestral theme is based on the same idea in "Rhapsody in Blue". Nothing stolen from it, just structural inspiration. I wrote the music to that section and John Seigler and I wrote all the music. Seigler wrote the weird, funky, odd time section, that TR sings the verses over. We brought our music to him and a day or two later, he had written all the words and had come up with the very idea of "Freak Parade". Todd even insisted I sing one section solo - (the only lead vocal on the first Utopia album not by TR.... The section I sang solo went, "In a world, full of freaks, you can creep, you can crawl, but the worlds biggest freak, is the one with no balls". As we got into performing it live, Todd and I would act out a kind of ballet, in the middle fight section..... playing dissonant noises on our instruments and with our bodies, making it feel like punches. Some nites those pantomime music fights in "Freak Parade" where TR and I really went at it.......... well, they were very therapeutic. Moogy ?/?/? Between 69 and 75, (when I constantly worked with him), I never saw TR take a pill, or do a line. .... ever! He only started smoking pot after I talked him into it. I turned him on to his first joint (I think). He was a real nerd. I was a genuine, pot smoking hippie, from age 16. TR was very straight 'til he got into pot. No drinking or pills. I think S/A was an album with some pot influence. LSD came later, in the wizard a true star thing. But I didn't turn him onto acid. Tripping with him was something to avoid cause he was my boss. Would you wanna trip with your boss?? While recording a Wizard we would watch the Watergate hearings on TV and smoke pot and make jokes. (secret sound, where we recorded wizard, was in my loft). If you think side 4 of S/A (or any early TR album) was done on Quaaludes, you gotta be downright crazy!! As for the inspiration for that 2 record set, Todd said to me one day, in the middle of recording it, "Moogy, I don't know what it is. But the songs are just pouring out of me and I can't stop it." Man, was that the truth! Moogy

7/31/99 It's one of those six degrees of separation. I was quite close with James Taylor, at a very early point in his career. From the start of the flying machine, when James was 19 and I was a few years younger (about two years before I met Todd).... I was close friends with Joel O'Brien, the drummer in the flying machine, James on rhythm guitar, Danny Kortchmar on lead guitar. They played at the nightowl club on macdougal street in the village, for about a year. In 1967-68?I would see them play many nites and go back to Joel's house with him and James and hang out all nite while they shot heroin and I smoked a joint. (I never could stand needles or downs of any kind) Joel would play jazz records for me and James til dawn. we were the 3 musketeers,.... the young pothead and the two junkies. I had played in the Jimi Hendrix band a year earlier, when it was called Jimi James and the Blue flames a year earlier. This was right before he left for England and formed the Experience. My point being, that I recognized greatness, even had played in a band with greatness, and I knew James was great. He was extremely cool and homespun, and with his long hair, tall presence, and occasional goatee, I always thought he was the Second Coming of Christ. The fact that he had just gotten out of a mental hospital before becoming a member of the flying machine was pretty impressive in my book. And every last word out of his mouth was carefully thought out and cleverly spun in a soft and humble, country, intellectual way. And Joel and Kooch (Kortchmar) were also moonlighting, by playing with Carole King at the time. Doing all her demos.......So at the age of 17, I was already a veteran of the Jimi Hendrix band, and hanging close with JT and occasionally with Carole King (Joel, Kooch and James played on Tapestry, a few years later).... before any of them had made records!!!! (though Carole was a big songwriter since the 50's). So you might say that I was there at the birth of heavy metal and the singer-songwriter explosion. Anyway, when the Flying Machine broke up with James going into rehab and a mental hospital... I didn't see him for awhile. I was playing with a group called the Glitterhouse, that a lot of record companies were interested in. I met Paul Rothchild, and invited him to our loft to hear us play. I met him at a club or on a plane. I don't remember which. He was the producer of all the Doors records (which I personally couldn't stand), and other big artists like Paul Butterfield and many others. Anyway, Rothchild was excited about the Glitter house and wanted to sign us. But eventually we went with Bob Crewe (producer of the Four Seasons) and his label Dynavoice. Cut to: James out of the hospital and rehab and hanging out at Joel's and looking for a record deal as a solo artist. I told him I could bring him to Electra and Paul Rothchild. So I called Paul and set up a meeting with the three of us. Me, James and Rothchild. James played many of the songs that would be on his apple album and Rothchild flipped for the songs! But staff producer at the biggest folk rock label in the country (elecktra), Paul Rothchild of the Doors fame, thought James had no future as an artist. He only wanted to have Tom Rush record a few of his songs. Rush did "Carolina in my Mind" and "Something in the way she moves" on his next album. Though Tom Rush was handsome, he was only a minor singer and stage presence, and James moved on to the Beatles and apple records. In my mind, the man who produced all the doors records made the biggest mistake of his life, when he passed on James Taylor and had Tom Rush do his tunes.!!!!!! But he was the man who produced the Doors and I hated the doors. Many people did at the time. Postscript: A few years later, when I was staying at TR's house in LA to form RUNT with Tommy Cosgrove and Stu Woods and ND smart, I took Todd to a James Taylor concert at the LA forum. Joel O'Brien on drums, Danny Kooch on guitar and Carole King on Piano. James was huge. "Sweet baby James" was the #1 album in the country and his picture was on the cover of Time magazine. This was about two or three years later. Todd hated James Taylor (jealously?) and had no interest in meeting him when we went backstage. I don't think anyone liked Todd's mod English look, and the vibes between them all were pretty cold with me in the middle trying to smooth things over. Kooch had liked the record "we gotta get you a woman" though and definitely liked meeting TR (Todd hated Kooches guitar playing).... so TR missed out on hanging with JT and Carole King and Kooch... while I would often go and hang with them, when I was with Joel.One final upshot would be that Ralph Schuckett was also playing with James Taylor and Carole King at the time, and as you know Ralph came east and joined Moogy and the Rythm Kings and that other band.........what was it called????? ah yes! Utopia. Moogy

8/3/99 Interesting note about those times. When I played with Hendrix, we were called "jimmy James and the blue flames" it was the year before he appeared at the Monterey rock festival, but the set was almost exactly the same. Foxy lady.... etc......and the clothes, sound and look were almost the same. we got $5 a nite a piece. but Hendrix was fully developed..... fully formed as an artist. One could tell 10 miles away, that he was a superstar. James Taylor ... a year or two later, at the night owl cafe with his band "the flying machine", was doing all those great songs from his first apple album before he ever recorded. "nite owl" and "knocking round the zoo". He played and sang and had that look of his...at $12 a nite. fully formed! He was every inch a star, even back then. and Imagine, no American record labels had any interest in signing either Hendrix or James Taylor (with or without the flying machine) Both artists had to move to England to be discovered. James played the village for a year with the flying machine. Hendrix for about 6 months. Todd Rundgren was not fully formed when I knew him. When I first met him, he wasn't singing any lead (with the Nazz). and when Todd was signed to Ampex to do his first album, he'd never sung lead in public. He was incredibly shy. Too shy to sing you a song at the piano or guitar. But he got signed. He didn't have to move to England. In the beginning, no one knew if Todd was going to be able to cut it live and sing and entertain. That's why there was so much movement against him at the label, even after "We got to get you a woman"... He just faked it and got better as he went along. It's was during the Utopia tours of 74 - that he really hit his stride as a performer. Moogy

8/15/99 you'd have to break down the AWATS album, track by track, to say who played what on what. Many of the tracks are all Todd and many of the tracks are Todd with Moogy and the Rhythm Kings. (Ralph, Siegler and Siomos). The whole thing was recorded in my house and was the first album we did after the studio was built. Many nites, Todd would walk into my apartment half of the loft, and pull me into the control room to hear his latest mix... and I'd say wow!! Now, that you got my brain going... It took quite a while to wire up everything himself. I don't think he even had any assistance. He made the studio from home audio equipment and build the board himself. It took him several months, as I recall. Every day he'd come in and wire things all day long. I think he really loved that work...kinda like building the interocitor...I helped soundproof and get the studio room looking good. But TR liked wiring everything up himself. When he lived in LA, around the Ballad period, he spent much of his time in his house on building a giant electric train set, that he wired and built and he even constructed the forests and towns, it went thru. So, TR wiring up the studio was like he was building a giant train set, and I don't even think he knew if it was really gonna work 'til the very first session. but he did it, (the control room) all by himself. solitary confinement and I think he loved it. I think I can remember the very first session at secret sound. It was Todd working on "International Feel" and playing all the instruments himself. When he started working on it, it didn't sound like anything, but then, as he finished it, it sounded great. when we brought the band in, Todd would engineer and then get the sounds and run into the studio and play the take with the band with no person left in the control room. Actually recording a band live with no one at the controls... As AWATS wound down, the same band, sometimes on the same day, would record songs for Moogy 2, which is now on" Old times, Good times"... a lot of the piano and drum sounds for AWATS are also on Moogy 2, cause Todd already had the sounds set up from his AWATS session and we would go into a Moogy song later that nite or the next day. It was shortly after recording those two records that TR asked us to join him in Utopia. for further study of that period, I suggest you get the new CD - "Old Times, Good Times"...which includes the Moogy 2 sessions and more from that period. Moogy I 8/21/99 << Could you offer more info as to the recording of the following songs? Were they recorded for specific projects? >> <<MR. I And Freedom> This is actually an out-take from the demos to my first album, done by Moogy and the Rhythm Kings (Schuckett, Seigler, and Siomos) which actually was the only song (of 4) from that date not to end up on the actual album. "I Can Love", "Making the Rounds at Midnite" and "The Man at Ease", all ended up on the first album, which necessitated removing some material, which was recorded a year earlier. Can you dig that? Capitol sat on my first album for a year before releasing and I insisted that they put some of the new songs that my new band was doing at that time. At the time (1972), I didn't think that "Mr. Freedom and I" rated. But finding an old tape of it at the bottom of the closet and listening, I definitely have changed my mind. After not hearing it ore these many years, my opinion has definitely changed. It is a beautiful song and I sang it simply. The band grooved on a country waltz and Schuckett and Seigler even sang some beautiful harmonies! Now, here is the real flash about "Mr. Freedom and I". When I started hanging out with Bette Midler in 1976, and was preparing to produce her album. She gave me a tape she had recorded of "Mr. Freedom...". It was for her second album. With Barry Manilow playing piano and arranging. I never even knew she had recorded it! Nobody told me! Not my publisher, nor any of Bette's people. Kevin Ellman was the drummer in Bette's band back in 72. I hadn't met him yet, but would shortly. He would become Utopia's first drummer, after a brief stint with Buzzy Linhart. Apparently, I had given Bette a tape of the song with several others, and she had never told me that she recorded it. Because, apparently, it didn't make the final cut for her 2nd album. But she sang it well...though Manilow's piano arrangement left something to be desired. So after "Mr. Freedom and I" was recorded and rejected by both Bette and myself, I give it to you, dear listener, a mere quarter of a century or so, later. -- I can now say definitively, we both made a big mistake. >> <> "Nothing in this World" was recorded solo by me in the earliest days of Secret Sound... the studio Todd Rundgren built in my loft. I played all the instruments, sang, and engineered it. In those same sessions, I did the same with "Save a Dance for Me" playing and singing all the parts. (both are on the "Old Times, Good Times" CD). With flanged piano and moog synths, it was a love ballad in the tradition of TR, with Billy Joel type chorus and a James Taylorish verse. It's an excellent ballad. TR himself was impressed when he hear the solo songs I turned out by myself his control room. This song has sat in vaults since the time it was recorded back in 73. And I don't think anyone has ever heard it. "Save a Dance for Me" on the other hand, was recorded by The Hello People on their Dunhill ABC album, with production by TR and me on the keys. Utopia even performed it live for a few shows, before cutting it from the tour. >> <> I didn't add surface noise to enhance the sentiment. I actually found this song on an old acetate and wasn't going to put it on the CD, cause of the surface noise. After all, all the other songs are from the original 2 track masters... But, when I listened to the lyric, the scratchy surfaced noise seemed to work perfectly. The lyric went, "I'm letting my mind just drift away to a time that was so very long ago. Such a long, long time ago." - this is the earliest song on the album. It was a demo made for capitol (1971) before they signed me, and as one song of six... got me my record deal! The fact is, I have no tape of the song, so I couldn't remove the atmospheric crackling if I wanted to. Moogy>>

8/21/99 << Could you offer more info as to the recording of the following songs? Were they recorded for specific projects? >> <<MR. I And Freedom> This is actually an out-take from the demos to my first album, done by Moogy and the Rhythm Kings (Schuckett, Seigler, and Siomos) which actually was the only song (of 4) from that date not to end up on the actual album. "I Can Love", "Making the Rounds at Midnite" and "The Man at Ease", all ended up on the first album, which necessitated removing some material, which was recorded a year earlier. Can you dig that? Capitol sat on my first album for a year before releasing and I insisted that they put some of the new songs that my new band was doing at that time. At the time (1972), I didn't think that "Mr. Freedom and I" rated. But finding an old tape of it at the bottom of the closet and listening, I definitely have changed my mind. After not hearing it ore these many years, my opinion has definitely changed. It is a beautiful song and I sang it simply. The band grooved on a country waltz and Schuckett and Seigler even sang some beautiful harmonies! Now, here is the real flash about "Mr. Freedom and I". When I started hanging out with Bette Midler in 1976, and was preparing to produce her album. She gave me a tape she had recorded of "Mr. Freedom...". It was for her second album. With Barry Manilow playing piano and arranging. I never even knew she had recorded it! Nobody told me! Not my publisher, nor any of Bette's people. Kevin Ellman was the drummer in Bette's band back in 72. I hadn't met him yet, but would shortly. He would become Utopia's first drummer, after a brief stint with Buzzy Linhart. Apparently, I had given Bette a tape of the song with several others, and she had never told me that she recorded it. Because, apparently, it didn't make the final cut for her 2nd album. But she sang it well...though Manilow's piano arrangement left something to be desired. So after "Mr. Freedom and I" was recorded and rejected by both Bette and myself, I give it to you, dear listener, a mere quarter of a century or so, later. -- I can now say definitively, we both made a big mistake. >> <> "Nothing in this World" was recorded solo by me in the earliest days of Secret Sound... the studio Todd Rundgren built in my loft. I played all the instruments, sang, and engineered it. In those same sessions, I did the same with "Save a Dance for Me" playing and singing all the parts. (both are on the "Old Times, Good Times" CD). With flanged piano and moog synths, it was a love ballad in the tradition of TR, with Billy Joel type chorus and a James Taylorish verse. It's an excellent ballad. TR himself was impressed when he hear the solo songs I turned out by myself his control room. This song has sat in vaults since the time it was recorded back in 73. And I don't think anyone has ever heard it. "Save a Dance for Me" on the other hand, was recorded by The Hello People on their Dunhill ABC album, with production by TR and me on the keys. Utopia even performed it live for a few shows, before cutting it from the tour. >> <> I didn't add surface noise to enhance the sentiment. I actually found this song on an old acetate and wasn't going to put it on the CD, cause of the surface noise. After all, all the other songs are from the original 2 track masters... But, when I listened to the lyric, the scratchy surfaced noise seemed to work perfectly. The lyric went, "I'm letting my mind just drift away to a time that was so very long ago. Such a long, long time ago." - this is the earliest song on the album. It was a demo made for capitol (1971) before they signed me, and as one song of six... got me my record deal! The fact is, I have no tape of the song, so I couldn't remove the atmospheric crackling if I wanted to. Moogy>>

8/26/99 The new release on Rhino of TR's something/anything will feature much previously unreleased material. Included in the CD will be "The Todd Rundgren Radio Show", which was a Todd audio autobiography of his life in the music business till then (1972). It's been available on bootlegs only - over the years. Do you folks know it? Todd narrates his life story in the music biz with extended excerpts from his various productions and bands. About mid-way thru this audio bio, he discusses meeting me and then plays "Crying in the Sunshine" from my Capitol album "Mark Moogy Klingman". This cut (which I wrote), is a love duet with TR and I. Todd plays the female role and sings his part in falsetto. On my Capitol album credits, we were called Lance and Lisa Brentwood. It's a hot track with a horn arrangement by TR and played by the Paul Butterfield horn section. John Siomos on drums, Tommy Cosgrove on guitar and Stu Woods on bass. The song was later recorded by Thelma Houston, in a very hot and commercial recording, but never released. Then TR describes how we jointly produced the James Cotten album "Taking care of Business", and plays a cut from that. It's the opening cut, that I arranged and played piano on. It's called "The Sky is Falling" by Danny Kotchmar. And also features Richie Heywood from "Little Feat", on drums. Matt Murphy (from the Blues Brothers ) and TR on guitars. Todd then describes the band we put together and plays "Lady on a Terrace" by the Runt band, recorded live on the radio, from some recording studio. I'm on organ, Stu Woods on bass, N.D. Smart on drums and Todd and Tommy Cosgrove on guitars. Tommy Cosgrove sings lead, and it's a song he wrote. The credits, unfortunately, say that Todd sings it. Hmmm. At least, that's what it said in the add in Rhino's magazine. Moogy

8/27/99 << << We were called Lance and Lisa Brentwood. >> When I was growing up, a friend of my mother's used to make jokes about plastic Hollywood people and he'd call them, "Lance and Lisa Brentwood"... I always thought was the perfect Hollywood name. Moogy

8/29/99 We Utopians, used to stand backstage while TR would sing this number solo, and have a big laff goofing on the lyric, "the red polygon's only desire is to get to the blue triangle." We thought it was pretty funny. Moogy

9/1/99 <> Okay - I give up!! What is the historical social manifestation of the Ikon?? Do you know? I don't. To the old band (outside of Todd), it was just an eye on an album cover. And we were just musicians - and TR was just a singing snake oil salesman, inventing some kinda of mumbo jumbo that seemed to be much ado about nothing. << (Sometimes people say that if someone has some aspirations of political, social change - that is opposed to personal political ambitions - then the last thing they would want to be is an artist. But then again social movements are so dry and heartless without artistic and musical movements at their core). Bob Roberts, anyone? >> Was there an over-riding philosophy to what TR was writing and singing and acting out at the time of the first Utopia album? If there was, he never successfully communicated it to us. He just wanted to be the biggest star and have the biggest band of the seventies. And, if he sweetened the deal with a little enlightenment hocus pocus, so be it. Just remember the three stages of stardom! It's a show business law of gravity that goes like this: 1. Get me Todd Rundgren! 2. Get me the next Todd Rundgren! 3. Who's Todd Rundgren?? beware of profits disguised as prophets! Moogy

9/2/99 << After a TR's Utopia concert in this era, we all stood backstage to wait and get a chance to meet Todd. Some of the stage crew came outside. One of my more politically convinced utopian idealist pyramid power friends approached these crewmembers and nervously asked questions about TR's mystical religious practices. Their response was great laughter and comments like "Since when is blotter and blow jobs a religion?" My friend was crushed, however he never did give up on the mystic thing. It fucked him up as an adult to be quite honest. We got jobs - he stayed at his moms and tended to his pyramids and dream catchers. Such is life. >> "Do you wanna be a vegetable, living all your life at home with mom, tending to your pyramid??? No, I didn't think you did!! So, better not listen to the Ikon!! All those unfulfilled enlightenment promises will fuck you up!!!!!" Jesse Helms on the floor of the senate -- 1975 When Helms said that in 75, I thought that he was kidding. Now I see, from the post above, he wasn't kidding. I'm shocked and dismayed. If I could take it all back I would! Grown men, hanging around the house with mom, thinking about the red triangle getting to the blue ...was it, pyramid?? Moogy

9/2/99 Yes - I wrote lyrics for the first Utopia album (Is that what you're referring to?) - unfortunately TR rejected them. He wrote all the lyrics to that album and the rest of all contented ourselves with writing music. Moogy

9/3/99 <> Sorry to get the dander of the yucky-mucky going (weren't you the guy I had to defend TR from, over false rumors that TR was stoned on downers while making something/anything?) When talking about Todd's lyrics as spiritual pablum to sell records, I was only referring to the Utopia album... and those words. And this was only in response to a question about the historical and spiritual significance of the "Ikon." The fact is, you might find keys here to the break-up of the original Utopia. If you want to know what the band was thinking and how we were reacting to TR's "spiritual journey" into Utopia, then from time to time, I might respond a little. I am an eyewitness to history, and if that history isn't always pleasant, then you must be prepared for the answers or stop asking the questions. When I am constantly asked as to why the original Utopia broke up and what happened, I have kept relatively quiet. But, by the release of the second Utopia album, the whole original band had quit. There must have been a reason. And if my responses drop little hints as to what those reasons were, then try to deal with my answers without the nasty personal attack.... or there will be no answers at all. Mucky, you have as much right to tell me not to play the Utopia theme, as I have to tell you - you should wipe your ass with sandpaper instead of toilet paper.... Hey, not a bad idea after all ! In a "careful what you wish for" mode, Moogy

9/4/99 We, in Utopia were as surprised as you with Helm's remarks. To answer your question as to the context... He said the statement in around 74 or 75, during the senate Utopiagate hearings. Those hearings (an investigation of the first Utopia's album's effect on the American people) were largely overshadowed by the Watergate hearings, which took place in approximately the same timeframe. Perhaps, you saw the Woodward/Bernstein book, "All Utopia's Men"? Moogy

9/7/99 Tom Dolby was a guest on my cable TV show, Manhattan Alley, back in 1980.. He wasn't a solo artist at the time, but was touring as keyboard man for Bruce Wolley, who had the hit "Video killed the Radio Star".... Dolby was a fanatic Todd/Utopia fan and he used to hang around my studio, on off days from the tour, to press me for info about the good ole daze. Nice kid, but I never knew how talented he was, till he starting putting out solo albums, a few years later. Boy, was I surprised! Moogy

9/13/99 No TR S/A Sept. 14th release, but the Meatloaf book on himself instead. Should be interesting to see how and if, he mentions me. As the guy who found the Meat and brought him to TR, and was the original co-producer of the album ("Bat Out of Hell" with TR), until I was ousted, early on... should be interesting to see what the Meat sez about all this. Moogy

9/14/99 The artist I was band leader for, was Lou Reed, who, at that time had his only top ten single "Walk on the Wild Side", produced by David Bowie. Touring with Moogy and the Rhythm Kings - then a few months later a tour with Lou Reed followed by forming and touring with TR's Utopia...wow! A study in contrasts. Lou Reed had more people nodding out on downs, in his audiences than I have ever seen, before or since. The final song of his set was "Heroin" a 20-minute number where he pretended to shoot up!!!!!!!... I guess his message was "nod out". Where TR's 30-minute number was "the Ikon"... elevating the masses to a new spiritual level thru some of the most intense rock music ever played. The Utopian was Ralph Schuckett, who was my best friend at the time. Only one keyboardist was needed - so Ralph filled in on second guitar. And he wore a silver jacket like Elvis. Pretty funny... one of America's greatest rock keyboardists playing rhythm guitar for a whole tour behind the "Heroin" songster. On lead guitar and harmony vocals, I selected Tom Cosgrove, who played in TR's band with me, Stu Woods, and N.D. Smart. I think it was called Runt, but maybe something else. Any historians here? Cosgrove, who had a slight drinking problem, bonded with Lou and his drinking problem, and sometimes they were sooooo drunk when we hit the stage... My fault. I didn't know either of them had a drinking problem before the tour, or I woulda left Tommy at home. Reed had fired his whole band one-week before the tour and I had four days to find the guys - rehearse them and hit the road. Buffalo Bill Gelber was along for the ride on the bass. And a completely wild black guy named only "Chocolate" was on drums. The crowds were nuts... but Reed was a failure as a rock and roll front man, at least on that tour...he couldn't sing, and some of the time, at least, he could hardly stand up (drinking and maybe pills or something...) fans were more often than not, very disappointed. Just imagine, the difference... playing with TR. He was the supreme front man, singer, performer and "visionary". So, I'm still in shock, that Lou Reed still has a major label deal and a lot of respect. Where TR has no label deal, and is mostly a forgotten man (outside of his extremely loyal fan base)...Irony of Ironies. Moogy

9/14/99 A few comments about TR's engineering and production style. He moved quick. Everything was always done quickly. Recording the trax... overdubs, vocals... and mixing... He moved a mile a minute and if you didn't wanna keep up with him. Too bad! TR liked to finish any album he worked on in about two weeks. He sometimes mixed whole albums in a day. (I think the first Utopia album was done that way)... If you wanted to spend whole sessions trying to get a good or better vocal... he just didn't wanna tolerate that. His style was to move fast and capture the moment. He did all his vocals that way. Moving faster than a speeding bullet. He'd come into secret sound (my loft) and go to the control room and in a couple of hours all the lead and background vocals for a song would be done... He moved fast and he expected others to do the same. That's why most artists didn't want to do a second album with him. They wanted to do things slowly, meticulously, and perfectly. Mix a song in a day and not a whole album. Record one song vocal in a day... punching in and doing track after track. Not TR... He moved fast as hell and onto the next thing. You didn't like the Vocal? too bad..... the train was leaving the station and onto the next thing. Even his trashy sounds and mixes were some kind of artistic statement. Remember - he built secret sound out of home audio equipment and crazy wiring... and no engineer in the control room when we did trax. But the sounds - like the songs themselves - made their own statements. Moogy

9/18/99 Nicky Nichols was the flamboyant make-up and costume designer that gave TR his peacock face on his first TV show after "Hello, It's Me'" was a hit. He did make-up and costumes for all the tours I was on. He was always a good friend of TR's. Moogy

9/19/99 <<SO, doing? was Bowie what about dug really he particular in anything there Was idols. Todd's of one say you> Obviously, TR dug the whole glitter rock thing. That's why we all had to wear crazy make-up and costumes for the first few tours. I was made up as Betty Boop!! Here we are playing heavy half hour long jazz rock fusion...transcendental rock... and I had to look like Ms. Boop!! After a few tours, TR let us stop wearing the Nicky Nichols applied make-up. The whole glitter look of the early tours was straight out of Bowie. After we played Carnegie Hall.... Bowie joined us for a small party at an Indian restaurant, where we eat and danced. Things were going well, till I let slip to Bowie, how little I enjoyed playing with Lou Reed, as compared to TR. This was enuff to upset him, mightily. He stopped talking to me, after that. <> I knew one day someone would mention this. Laura Nyro was a tremendous influence on TR and I. We both started writing piano songs after listening to her album, "Eli and the Thirteenth Confession". Laura Nyro inspired both of us to become songwriters. After Eli came out, TR began to play piano endlessly, and taking Laura's chords to other worlds. In fact, in TR's piano based songs, (which are most of his songs), there is no greater influence than Laura Nyro. I, likewise, was blown away by hearing the "Eli" album. It was a completely obscure record, and bonded us together after first meeting each other (we found the record independent of each other)...Our immediate bond was how much we loved Laura Nyro. TR even wrote a song about her on his first album, based on how poorly she performed at the troubadour (an LA club), and the fact that TR had dinner with her, later! <> Todd would honestly, almost never listen to rock music when I was around. He hated for anyone to think of him as a fan of anyone. Mostly, he loved to condemn other rock music. But, I can tell you his earliest influences were the Beatles and the Who. In the early days of the first "Runt", all his guitar moves were based on Peter Townsend. His singing was based on many Philly soul black acts, and his Utopia band concept had as much to do with the Mahavishnu Orchestra as with Yes. Moogy

9/22/99 The section of the Ikon that I wrote is the last section before the finale'. The band breaks and the electric piano plays a very Aron Copland type line, and then the band comes in with a

9/8-hoedown country feel. Then the thing breaks down to just grand piano and I play a sad slow melody. The piece then goes to double speed as the hoedown picks up from ballad section...this leads into the final recap of all the melodies of the Ikon. I wrote this entire section, and the piece was originally called "The Conquering of the West". Todd liked the piece and interpolated it into the "Ikon". My band is rehearsing it and will most likely play "The conquering of the west" from the Ikon ... on Sunday... for the first time. Moogy 9/24/99 I do remember, that at the time, TR was not happy about having to share the production credit with someone, who had essentially walked off the production...even though this someone was George Harrison (who played an amazing slide guitar solo on "Day after Day"). TR told me, that he did sit with Harrison in the studio and go over the tracks with him, before taking over the project. Moogy

9/24/99 The only lead singing that I did on the first Utopia album is on the "Freak Parade". I sing both choruses' solo. "In a world full of freaks, you can creep you can crawl, but the world's biggest freak...(TR and band chime in) is the one with no balls" In fact, that's the only lead singing on that album, not done by TR. Moogy 9/25/99 On "Freak Parade", I co-wrote all the music with John Siegler. << One kick ass piano solo. Can't think of a rock piano solo with more. >> Thanks! That's me... and not Ralph, or the Frog. The real overt influence on the music of the "Freak Parade", was that it followed the form of George Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue". Moogy

9/29/99 Now it can be revealed!!!!!!! Not only did none of the stars from his TV show, "Taxi" show up at Andy's funeral. But no one from SNL or the two movies that he had done and no comedians from the Improv who had made it with Andy (like Robins Williams). No stars at the funeral. ZILCH!... On the 6 o clock news the nite of the funeral were interviews with me (yes, I was there) and Bob Zmuda. But, least we stop here... let it be known here first. Exclusively!!!!!! In the movie "Man on the Moon", the whole cast of Taxi is at the funeral!!!!!! I say stop the lies, Hollywood!!... In this flic - Art sure don't imitate life!!!! In fact, the only people outside the family and a few friends, who were there, were many Elvis impersonators in full regalia. They thought Andy was the first and the best Elvis. This was added to the flick after my sister told Milosh Forman(the director) about it. My sister (Lynzee Klingman) edited the movie. So they added the Elvis guys at my suggestion, but wouldn't take out the Taxi cast. A second, more complete Bio by Bill Shnee?? is coming out in November and I did about three interviews for it, so watch out for the MoogMan and maybe a Utopia reference, in the authorized Andy Kaufman Bio. Moogy

10/8/99 When we played Philly, as "Hello, It's Me" was in the top five and Todd was America's hottest new rock star, his parents came to the gig. After the sold out show of screaming TR fanatics, I was next to Todd, as his parents came backstage. His mother was beaming and proud, but his Dad, dressed in a plaid workshirt and dungarees, seemed somewhat hostile. While standing next to TR, I asked his father what he thought of the concert and Todd's music. His dad said, "I didn't listen to the music. It was so loud that I had to go to the lobby to get away from it. Then I could still hear it, so I went to my car in the parking lot, and I could still hear it. So, I rolled up all the windows while I sat in the car. Peace at last!" Todd laughed politely. Moogy

11/5/99 Ellman quit the group to work for his father's restaurant empire - "Beefsteak Charlie's" and "Steak and Brew". He was being groomed to take over as president of the company. I talked him out of musical retirement to record one song with me and John Seigler in 1985. I still remember going to his office and seeing him in his business suit. That song, "Popularity", will be on my next album...out in about two months...."Moogy and the MoJo's" a musical history - part 3. (Part 2 comes later) Moogy

11/6/99 << Moogy seems to have been deeply hurt by experiences with Todd (not that I can blame him in the slightest), and has not worked that through enough to let it go. >> Whatever my personal feelings about TR, or what I've worked thru or not, when you say TR was a "YESHEAD" or worshipped Nyro, and loved Clapton.... I feel I just have to step in, cause I was there. I am a witness to history. And I think that people want to know the truth. When TR was in high school, he probably was a fan of other bands and musicians, but from the first day I ever knew him and onward, he wasn't a fan. That's just a fact. If you went to his house, he wouldn't play you records he loved of contemporary pop acts or bands. I think he felt he was above all that. He said it best. "I don't admire people..." that's your quote, not mine. .... and honest to god, it was true, when it came to his influences. He must have loved them. He just wouldn't admit it. For a guy steeped in music the way he was, I was always amazed that he felt it was bad form to display affection for the music and musicians that so influenced him and turned his life around (remember, he was a nerd in high school, till he found music). Occasionally, I would bring over new records I loved so I could turn TR onto them. And he would always act unexcited and point out some negative thing about them, whoever they were. I finally had to stop bringing over records. I couldn't take it anymore. Here was a musical genius, swimming in music 24 hours a day, who never seemed to enjoy any record by any contemporary. Very sad, and in a way, very telling. It's not about me, or what I've worked out or not, or been hurt or not. I was there - with TR much of the time, during they years 69 to 75 and stayed very close to him during much of those years. I'm only telling you the truth, Bill, now deal with it. << To him it is a sham because he can't see it from any other perspective. >> I'm not saying he was a sham, I loved the man's music. Deal with that! He just wasn't a fan or an admirer of other people's work. At least, he wouldn't let on that he was... Okay, Bill!! Do you want to know what really turned TR on??? What he really, really loved…fireworks! Moogy
As told to the Awizard list by Mark "Moogy" Klingman... Pt.13

11/10/99 The two songs you are talking about were TR on everything songs. The crashing sea sounds on "Spark of Life" - were created with the mini-moog. TR had an uncanny ability to find any sound effect equivalent on the mini-moog. If you pull out your copy of my CD, "Old Times, Good Times".... on the song, "Doing the Slop", TR uses the mini-moog to create all the sound effects. That's the comet, the car engine, the dual carburetors, screeching wheels etc....check it out. The CD is still for sale at my website - http://members.xoom.com/moogymusic The tap dancing sound on "Useless Begging", was, I believe, done with spoons. TR either played two spoons back to back or banged them on the floor..can't remember which. But he was always able to make music on any instrument, synth, even household appliance or in this case, silverware. Moogy 11/13/99 On AWATS, TR sang all the voices. Moogy

11/25/99 Yes, I played the RMI computer keyboard on several Utopia tours. Mostly for the Bell sounds. The most interesting thing about the keyboard was you had to use computer punch cards for programming. Cardboard cards with punched out holes. Pretty funny.... Moogy

11/28/99 I think you're list has covered it rather well. Roger never used a big moog cabinet while I was with the group. He simply played the brand new at the time, polymoog. The mini- moog was also in there. Korg had a mono synth that I used, and Ralph had a mono synth by some other company. .......... I think that mostly covers it. Moogy THE END FOR NOW...........